Is RIM sinking in the North America market?

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It's no surprise that RIM is slacking when it comes to their devices. Just on Verizon you had the fail of of the first generation Storm, the defective Tour's and defective screens with the newer generation Storm 2's. RIM is more worried about taking previous devices and adding a track pad and a few more megs of memory and calling it a new device then they are about addressing the main issues consumers are having. Web browsing and applications. When it comes to web browsing, the iPhone and Android devices are walking all over RIM. It is rumored that in June RIM is to introduce a new web browser for surfing the internet on the BlackBerry devices. Should we be expecting anything great or jaw dropping that could get back some of their fans that they lost to the Android? In my honest opinion, 99% of BlackBerry users have lost the excitement when RIM states they are coming out with something new. And they have no one to blame but themselves.

PCMag writer is quoted "..consumers want the same experience on their smartphones as they have on their personal computers." BlackBerry fails in that department. Actually I have to correct myself, computers do freeze and lock and you have to restart it more often then you would like. BlackBerry devices are the same way, so they do have that connection. But what causes a computer to freeze and have to be restarted? Yes, the operating software, just like it is with the BlackBerry phones. The area that RIM is lacking in. The writer goes on to say “The iPhone and the Android platforms provide a far, far better web and apps experience than the BlackBerry”. RIM which still holds its strong position with business users, are trying to break into the market that the iPhone and Android devices are holding strong in. As time passes it becomes more clear that they (RIM) can not make the transition. To consumers in North America, it seems RIM is failing and not going to make a come back but in reality, RIM is growing larger and larger.

So what does a company do when they are losing the game in one area? RIM decided to flee and start expanding in areas of the world where they can win over consumers and claim they are growing rapidly. The BlackBerry Bold 2 and the 8520 are being called the Dynamic Duo by Broadpoint AmTech analyst Mark McKechnie. These two devices are a huge hit and continuing its international growth in Europe and India. He also goes on to state that RIM needs to come up with something more compelling if they want to compete with the iPhone. Morgan Stanley analyst Ehud Gelblum states that even though RIM's operating software lags behind Apple, Android and Palm in consumer features, he believes that's less important in the international markets where there's untapped opportunity for mobile e-mail. He also goes on and says “We believe the rapid growth of the smartphone market coupled with RIM's focus on international markets should drive unit growth, offsetting potential share loss to Apple and Android in North America,”

While we complain about RIM and think they are digging their graves by not coming out with anything new to compete with these other devices, they (RIM) are actually going to be growing even larger and could be at a decent rate since they are focusing now on international growth. What do you guys think about this?

[Globe And Mail]

I've been saying this for months!

So I went to the Droid site to see what all the fuss was about. I mean, I know that Droid is open Linux which is super sweet, and that it has some amazing apps, but really...

So, I punched the URL into my 9700 and did some reading....very cool stuff they have going on....let's watch one of these videos, I thought to myself.....

Oh yeah, I am on the net on my BB, can't watch those Droid videos...

Luckily the guy sitting next to me had an iPhone, and was kind enought to loan it to me for a minute! LOL

In all seriousness though, and I thought I would never say this, but RIM has until my contract is up in June to get their sh*t together.

Most of the reasons I own a BB are irrelevant now. Sure, push email is cool, but I can wait the extra 3 minutes to get a msg. In fact, my company has about 10 employees that all have 9700's with the same POP email, and mine is the only one that actually "pushes" without a delay.....so that's a bust.

Most of my friends have....errrr had BB"s, so BBM is super important. But then again, there are a million P2P messaging apps out there.

I guess the one thing that keeps me interested in BB's is BBOSand getting all these OS leaks! But then again, if the BB's OS didn't suck so much, we wouldn't have to do that either.

I hate to be a ship jumper, but like the writer of the article said, I want my phone to be the equivalent of my office when I am not there.

How is RIM possibly going to keep up?

Here's hoping they don't just keep up, but surpass the Droid, but this cowboy's been around the RIM block too many times to hold his breath.

Just my $.02
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At what point do you guys think that RIM is/was competing in the toy market? I believe that they are still focusing on the point that they are more business class then gimick phones. Would I love it if RIM listened to everyones opinions and came out with the features you are wanting. Heck YES. And they are in away. The web kit will improve on their browsers and IMO that is really the only thing I hear everyone complaining about. Will the web kit satifiy everyone, I severely doubt it.

In the end if you look at the past 5 years RIM has improved on their phones pretty dramatically. I own a IPhone aswell and I fondly refer to it as my IJunk. Im just not that impressed with it and all the 150,000+ apps which most of it is usless. That phone still has its issues with functionality and build design. And personally if I want a "desktop" experience on a phone the, iphone still falls short as well BTW, i will get a net book to carry or just wait till I am at my PC. The Iphone doesnt display every site in full html and it cant display flash either so not every website can be displayed on that phone either.


That's my 2 cents.

When people purchased there BB's they surely didn't get the messege. The BB's were specifically designed for business use and it continues to be the top choice for that consumer. Now that the Iphone and Droid are out there with faster browser speeds and better apps etc etc... many people are thinking about or already jumped shipped. RIM may not have that desire to keep up with there ccompetition in that area but like the article states they are still growing. So if people want something that will entertain them, than they should get the Iphone or droid and stop complaining.

This argument has been going around for a while now and with phones like the EVO 4G coming out RIM really has to make some moves.
They are sinking just at a time when they want the consumer market. They have only recently started to mass sell BB's on the open market rather than through business, so they need to pull their finger out and make their phones drawdropping to compete.

But lets face it, they are not going to are they?

Brett, can you create a poll and add it to this discussion? Will you stay with RIM should they continue to push the same old phones with a few updates or will you move to the next generation of super smartphone, like the 4G?

Just my 2 cents.

Personally, if they keep this up they will end up like Nokia.

Nokia was king 4 years ago (All Mobile not Smartphone) and they started focusing on other international markets to make up for US losses, and they are now low man in the US. They do not seem to mind, since they are big shit in Europe, but hell, I loved my old Nokia phones!

RIM better get their US tail in gear, before www.BlackberryOS.com becomes www(dot)SmartphoneOS(dot)com or something... lol (Not that I would have a say in that)

My dad works for PWC, the largest (accounting) firm in US to deploy Blackberry units to every one of it's employees. RIM isn't going wrong here, they are still large in the business world which is precisely where they intend to be. Blackberry's becoming a "trend" and then quickly going out of style is because it was teenagers who don't know how to spell their name let alone update their phone. (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...pshots/90.html)

The fact that they want to market globally is an excellent choice on their end. It's not to make up for US lost profits, but however profit where they weren't to begin with. Sure they are losing sales because, once again, teenagers aren't buying them since they don't know how to use them - but it's not intended for them.

About the Nokia thing, I 100% agree if they continue to come out with new phone models like they do with the lack of functioning software to support it. They need to get their ducks in a row on the software before any more hardware is introduced. I do think the main reason they are doing this is the main reason popular kids in school are rarely friends with the nerds (myself).. Lol.. Because they judge a book by it's cover. If RIM can make a sleek looking phone, kids will buy it because they do judge books by their cover. However, they are getting mixed emotions here since they target business' yet deploy their units aimed towards kids.

RIM is going up regardless, but if they don't change their habits and start aiming for what they actually want, they will end up getting tossed aside.

RIM is still hands down the best Enterprise phone for business. iPhones, droids, windows mobile do not even come close.

i have 150 BB's on a BES and tested all the other products at length and nothing compares...

and as far as their 'new features'... i can see every computer on all of our networks and get into their files from my storm 2... and that comes standard with BES 5.0 with OS 5.0 software...

they are and will be the industry leader for business's smartphone needs.

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Originally Posted by glockguy

In all seriousness though, and I thought I would never say this, but RIM has until my contract is up in June to get their sh*t together.

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+1
3char

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Originally Posted by bkeaver

At what point do you guys think that RIM is/was competing in the toy market? I believe that they are still focusing on the point that they are more business class then gimick phones. Would I love it if RIM listened to everyones opinions and came out with the features you are wanting. Heck YES. And they are in away. The web kit will improve on their browsers and IMO that is really the only thing I hear everyone complaining about. Will the web kit satifiy everyone, I severely doubt it.

In the end if you look at the past 5 years RIM has improved on their phones pretty dramatically. I own a IPhone aswell and I fondly refer to it as my IJunk. Im just not that impressed with it and all the 150,000+ apps which most of it is usless. That phone still has its issues with functionality and build design. And personally if I want a "desktop" experience on a phone the, iphone still falls short as well BTW, i will get a net book to carry or just wait till I am at my PC. The Iphone doesnt display every site in full html and it cant display flash either so not every website can be displayed on that phone either.




That's my 2 cents.

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My thoughts exactly. Their webkit browser will be out sometime this year, and they continue to work on OS enhancements, but it is a BlackBerry - It is a Smartphone for business type people, not for the teenager who wants to surf youtube. I just don't think they feel as if they need to do what the others are doing to try to keep up.

RIM offers a great mobile device IMO & they will continue to stay afloat :)

Trying to stick with my BB, but I'm tired of seeing all these recycled phones. It's even worst now that they all start looking alike. If the HTC HD2 was on vzw, I would've jump ship. I sure hope the storm3 will be a lot more appealing than the Storm2(more memory & Wifi). Really?

I'm still using a storm 1, and for the most part i find the device quite good... that is if I don't consider the patheticly slow web browsing expierience and major lack of memory for apps. ..the thing is, these two items are important enought that I too am considering swithching to an android..


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....oub234tcds.jpg

..can that many people be all that wrong?

RIM was and still is the business phone but it may not be like that for much longer. It's not all that hard for these other platforms to enhance their e-mail capabilities. RIM acts like they are the only ones who can have such great email capabilities when that is def. not the case.

Seems that they are working likr our government....... Put a band-aid on a knife wound and find a way to ignore the problem. If it looks good on paper, it must be right!!!!

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Originally Posted by travisn000

I'm still using a storm 1, and for the most part i find the device quite good... that is if I don't consider the patheticly slow web browsing expierience and major lack of memory for apps. ..the thing is, these two items are important enought that I too am considering swithching to an android..


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....oub234tcds.jpg

..can that many people be all that wrong?

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This poll IMO is inaccurate. I've been saying this since day one, and have seen it mentioned quite a few times in this thread. The BB was not made or marketed for the teenager or the baby boomer as a status symbol. It was made for and is continued to be made for the professional business user. Yes, Rim does not keep up with the Iphone 150 000 apps, or cater to every wish and whim out there that people have. Yes, the native browser is slow, but there are free options out there (bolt, Opera Mini), both of which work amazingly well, until the Web Kit is released.

Now back to the graph illustrated above. How many of those people are teenagers who are attracted by a phone that will allow them 150k+ apps, or better streaming video? Or the baby boomer that is keeping up with the guy next door. Then, how many of the people switching in this poll are business users? Very few is my guess.

RIM is designing, making and marketing a tool for business use. This has been they're core value since day one and will continue to be so for many years to come. I think that if any poll should be set up by Brett, it should be directed at business users here at BBOS, asking them if they will switch to a different smartphone. I'm guessing the results would be significantly skewed.

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Originally Posted by joshjamie

Then, how many of the people switching in this poll are business users? Very few is my guess

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But how many of those business users, are actually able to switch? How many business users are given company issued phones, and are told what device they can or cannot have?

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Originally Posted by sunkast

But how many of those business users, are actually able to switch? How many business users are given company issued phones, and are told what device they can or cannot have?

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Good point...change the poll to how many business users would switch if given the opportunity

I AM a business user.....and NOT on BES. How many others like me are out there?

Like I said earlier, what diff does BIS make to the non corporate guy that relies on his phone for up to the minute updates?

I REQUIRE a better web interface for MY business.....I guess as long as everyone gets their email right away and the admins can monitor each phone's usage, it doesn't matter.
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Originally Posted by glockguy

I AM a business user.....and NOT on BES. How many others like me are out there?

Like I said earlier, what diff does BIS make to the non corporate guy that relies on his phone for up to the minute updates?

I REQUIRE a better web interface for MY business.....I guess as long as everyone gets their email right away and the admins can monitor each phone's usage, it doesn't matter.
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I have 2. One for work on the BES and another personal one on BIS I use for as a consultant. I have one son using a droid and another using am iphone. For business purposes, they're phones don't come close in comparison. They're target consumer is teenagers, plain and simple, and as such, cannot currently compete with the bb. On that, if they continue to target the teenager as the principle user, they will never compete with the bb.
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