Thread: RIM gives pin to goverment UAE

Today I read in a Dutch newspaper that RIM will be giving all registerd pin's of all Blackberry's in use in UAE to it's goverment.
Reason being that the securityagencies could'nt read email and / or messenger messages sent from a Blackberry.
In India a block on Blackberry services is at hand, like in the UAE.
RIM say's they might release pin's there aswell.
Is this a big mistake by RIM, seeing our goverment (don't know why) is complaining. It could be, seeing they gave it up once, other countries want the pin number aswel?
I know that normal phone and / or text traffic already is monitored and / or saved, but is'nt this the time comapnies should say no?
What do you think?
Ps, sorry for any spelling mistakes :P

Hello, great post. On one hand I think that it violates a consumers right to privacy, but one the other hand many countries like India, UAE, Saudi Arabia all have many active Islamic extremist cells that may use the privacy of the BB to carry out acts of violence. It seems that this may be what these countries are trying to prohibit.

For the big picture, what it all boils down to is that RIM is a private company and has the right to pick and choose where and when information can be given out. If the users don't like that, then they can go to another phone company and RIM will lose more customer base. RIM is stuck between a hard place and a rock on this one.

I agree on both points.
My point on the othe hand is this.
What keeps other countries, like mine, from demanding the same or banning RIM?
Is'nt it easier to get banned in certain countries?
Would'nt the amount of phones you wont sell be a small part of the total?

Also, in any country there can be terrorists, but I don't think that's why they want to have the info. I guess it's more being in controle. My sister lives there, and it's a lot different then in Europe.

I think RIM has a certain position to prevent unlawfull plans that might be made using blackberry way's of communication. But don't you agree that there are many other ways to plan things? You can code emails and all, phones can be scrambled, I mean if people want to harm, they will find a way.

I just hope RIM does'nt buckle and gives it all when other countries want t have it.

Playing devil's advocate here we need to remember that the countries in question...UAE, China, Iran to name a few, either curtail or downright ban free speech. What they are requesting is nothing specific against RIM. This is a part of everyday life in these countries that extends to all forms of communication.

RIM and all other smartphone makers knew this when breaking into these markets. At some point, they knew they would have to bend in some way shape or manner in order to sell they're product there. Its. Fact of life.

However, with that said, where do the RIM's, Motorola's and LG's say enough I'd enough and its just not worth the millions in profits they garner from these markets. Unfortunately we do live in a society that is run by the almighty dollar and not compassion for human rights. Let's do the math...750 000 Abusers in the UAE alone. Say a quarter of them are using the higher end BB's...the numbers are staggering. And as far as China goes, that market involves the worlds most populous nations.

I'm sure RIM knew this long before entering these markets and already had the server installation in these countries as a contingency.
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Agreed.
Yet by giving in to the request, they open pave the way for other countries who are less / not know for it's privacy and / or civilrights in a negative way.
Like I said before, the Dutch goverment is also worried. But we are not like China, India, UAE etc.
Not in that way atleast. Thing is you get doubble standards.
As a parent, you cant tell one kids to stay off the coockies yet give another a coockie. This argument will be used and, if all goed sour, RIM would be forced to hand it over or banned.
All I want to say is that RIM opened the door for all other countries by giving in.
On the other hand, who says others wont be using it against people without us knowing it?

This is all well and good, and they're trying to convince us all that its being done "for our own good". The problem with this scheme is not only the fact that those using BlackBerries for illegal things will have them registered in another name, or just plain steal them from legitimate consumers. Another problem we WILL see is; once this becomes acceptable in one place, it becomes standard everywhere. If you don't fully believe me on this, take a look at how helmet laws and emissions testing became so prevalent. First, it is touted as being "for your own good", then it is sold to you by showing how happy the people who already lost their liberties appear to be. Don't fall for the hype.

Originally Posted by Bugly

This is all well and good, and they're trying to convince us all that its being done "for our own good". The problem with this scheme is not only the fact that those using BlackBerries for illegal things will have them registered in another name, or just plain steal them from legitimate consumers. Another problem we WILL see is; once this becomes acceptable in one place, it becomes standard everywhere. If you don't fully believe me on this, take a look at how helmet laws and emissions testing became so prevalent. First, it is touted as being "for your own good", then it is sold to you by showing how happy the people who already lost their liberties appear to be. Don't fall for the hype.

You are right to a point, but I would have used different analogies... Helmet laws are good as sometimes the other guy may bump you off your bike. It shouldn't even have to be a law if the guy on the bike is using common sense. As far as emissions, you just have to come live in Montana where we have no emission laws.

Point still being that any country only has to threaten to ban RIM and they get what they want.
Like he said, it will be "for our own good" but is it?
I know they can check calls, text and who knows what else, but thats not because of companies that let goverments do that.
Ithink RIM should say no and take the risk. In the west I dont think it will impact anything, but flip those countries over there the bird...

Exactly, Poita. The problem lies deeper in the political psyche. They just found out there is something they cannot control without the manufacturer's help, and they don't like it. So, in order to justify the control grab, they claim first that it is to "counter terrorism". This is the highest level of B.S. our governments have come up with since the cold war. They always have to make up some terrible enemy to keep us fearful so they can exert their will upon us. The real terrorists are living in D.C. (...And no, this was not a slam at Obama, I have neutral feelings toward him, as a President is really just a figurehead)

Originally Posted by Joseph Jerde

You are right to a point, but I would have used different analogies... Helmet laws are good as sometimes the other guy may bump you off your bike. It shouldn't even have to be a law if the guy on the bike is using common sense. As far as emissions, you just have to come live in Montana where we have no emission laws.

As for the analogies, yeah, I could have come up with better ones, it was just a point I was making, though. Been to Montana, Did some sapphire mining near Helena (Houser lake area) Beautiful place, but not enough jobs available.
...and the daytime speed limit is nice!

Originally Posted by Bugly

Exactly, Poita. The problem lies deeper in the political psyche. They just found out there is something they cannot control without the manufacturer's help, and they don't like it. So, in order to justify the control grab, they claim first that it is to "counter terrorism". This is the highest level of B.S. our governments have come up with since the cold war. They always have to make up some terrible enemy to keep us fearful so they can exert their will upon us. The real terrorists are living in D.C. (...And no, this was not a slam at Obama, I have neutral feelings toward him, as a President is really just a figurehead)

Thats the way goverments try to get twhat they want. By scaring people.
Look at the Iraqi war, Afganistan, all started "for our own good"
In Holland we had terrorist threats aswell, political murders but I didnt get scared. Wanna blow us up, bring it!
By taking all these meassures they get what they want, scared people without using a stick of dynamite.
We, the people, dont fear anything. The goverment fears us because we have no real fears.
Now they want RIM to bend over and take it all in the name of "security"
Whats next? Having to ID your self with every purchase you make so they know what you have?
They know everything already because of your bankcard, phone, creditcard, car, passport what ever.
Potential terrorists dont scare me, but a goverment being able to take away privacy does.
RIM is opening a door they wont be able to close...

And RIM takes it up the butt...
Just gave in to India's demand aswell. To bad, what's next?